The Inspired Life
The Inspired Life
Life Lessons from a Dynamic Entrepreneurial Duo
Embark on a journey of resilience and creativity as Divya and Sushant, the power couple behind DN and Co., reveal the art of balancing business with life. Uncover how their diverse backgrounds and unique skills create a dynamic synergy that fuels their social media studio. You'll hear tales of humorous clashes and the profound influence of Divya's film studies, alongside Sushant's strategic vision, shaping both their personal lives and burgeoning business.
Discover the pivotal role of family support that fuelled their ambitions, and the transformative events that steered their business journey. From an unexpected shift in Hyderabad to battling health challenges, learn how these experiences enriched their approach, emphasizing growth over immediate gains. They candidly share the highs and lows of entrepreneurship, including the crucial turn of prioritizing learning over earnings, and how these lessons foster resilience and innovation in their venture.
Explore the complexities of maintaining a harmonious personal and professional life, as Divya and Sushant discuss setting boundaries and the intricacies of navigating financial dynamics. With an emphasis on cherishing the present and evolving perspectives on success, they highlight the importance of a multidimensional approach to life. Gain insights into effective social media branding, where authenticity meets strategy, and absorb valuable advice for young entrepreneurs aspiring to carve out their own path in the business world.
If you like what you hear, subscribe and follow us on Spotify, iTunes and Amazonmusic. A new episode will come out every 1st and 15th of a month. You can also follow us on Instagram on theinspiredlifepodcast. If you want to mail me to discuss some of the things we are talking here or have a story to share on this podcast, email me at theinspiredlifeindia@gmail.com. This is Deepika and I thank you for listening.
Hello everyone. I'm Deepika Rao and you're listening to the Inspired Life Podcast, where we explore stories that break the mold and inspire. I am joined by Divya and Sushant, the dynamic couple behind DN Co. A social media studio they started four years ago. Divya's journey spans Benin, dubai and London, with a background in film studies, while Sushant's path includes being an international tennis player and a business strategist with degrees from LSE and IUM. We'll explore their inspiring career choices, the challenges of stepping outside the norm and what it takes to build a career that truly aligns with who you are. Let's get started. So thank you, divya. I think Divya and I met through Leap Club isn't it Part of the women's club?
Speaker 1:and they had this Tinder like, yeah, that's what we discussed the Leap radius and that was a great morning catching up and that's all.
Speaker 2:Yeah, consume very very well.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes. So that was nice. And so, shahan, this is the first day, first time I'm meeting you, but of course I know you both work together. Yeah, and as a couple who live together, work together. Let's start with that. How is that going? You wanna go?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So I think a lot of it really depends on how we are both personally also feeling our moods for the week, for the day really impacts how we're looking at things. But also, this is both, I think, for us a blessing, and also sometimes not, because I am very much design oriented, very aesthetic oriented, very like team what's going on right now oriented, and Sushant's a lot more big picture. He's a lot more you know how are things going to work out, if you know. I mean, he has a lot of thoughts about how things need to happen five years from now, ten years from now. I'm more what's happening right now.
Speaker 3:So when you have these two personalities, it's perfect for running a business in the sense that you have someone that's thinking of these two aspects, correct. But when it is husband and wife and you have these different personalities and, let's say, you're building a website or anything like that, there can be a lot of, a lot of fights. I mean, if I tell you that we fought so much over our website because I wanted it one way, he wanted it one way and that was majorly our you know fights when we were creating that website. In retrospect it's very funny to think about it, but that's how it, uh, usually goes, because we're both, what we both want is necessary, but at that moment, and each one is stuck to what they want personally. So, yeah, there's, there's a bit of that. What do you think? I mean I couldn't have actually said it better myself.
Speaker 4:I think we're oriented quite differently. Understanding of what constitutes the word good or what constitutes the word quality can be different, and this is not just true of necessarily two people who are married, it's true of pretty much anybody right? Like Divya said, that, given the nature of our business you know we're a social media studio, it's kind of a. It encapsulates a bunch of different things, of which design is one part. And so when Divya tends to lean more in that direction, where it's like, you know, I care about how it looks, Because if it looks a certain way, if it's of a certain quality, people will understand that you are of a certain quality and a certain caliber.
Speaker 4:And my thinking tends to be a little bit more numerical. A lot of the time it tends to be a little bit more numerical. A lot of the time it tends to be a little bit more architectural. If you know what I mean. I'm asking the question in people land, what's the first thing they're seeing? Where does that take them then? Where does that take them? So for me, it's really about cutting things into pieces and seeing how they connect together, you know. So it's almost kind of a left brain, right brain situation and the two halves are kind of at loggerheads with one another for specific decisions, and that's where it gets both kind of comical and also a little intense, yeah, I can imagine.
Speaker 1:But clearly this left brain, right brain has worked together very well because your website is wonderful. It's one of the nicest websites I've seen in a while. And it was just coming around to cry my own sad story, which is I've been crying about my websites for years now because I never seem to get them right. And I saw your website and I showed my husband immediately I said look, this is what I'm talking about, this is how they should look, this is how they should feel. And then, you know, I am just doing a very basic thing on VIX right now and the idea is because I need three websites, so I decided, like you know what, I'm just going to make it functional for now and then eventually, one day, you people like you will hopefully help me create, turn each of them into something more creative and look as good as D&Co's.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but actually I just want to mention that it was a studio we worked with called Studio Ping Pong that did the design and stuff for us, and they were actually very helpful with trying to understand what I want, what Sushant wants, and I think a lot of times, having like a third person to bridge what it is that you know two founders want, I think is very, very important, and they were able to really help us with that that's really nice and clearly I think both your education and background show in your work and you know what you bring to the table Like with you.
Speaker 1:You grew up in very interesting Benin and Dubai, and then you have a background in film studies, and which, so do you think now your background with film studies has influenced your perspective with storytelling, with the work that you do?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I actually started studying film from when I was in school. So I was in 11th grade when I first got introduced to films. But my mom and dad are also really into like cinema. So from very young age like watching a movie was like a celebration at home. You know you're bringing up all the snacks, you're arranging the room, the AC is on, the temperature is great, so it's always been like a lot of respect for it. And also, growing up we traveled a lot and dad, you would always we'd make a joke that we'd never see our dad's face. It's always covered with those big cameras. Yeah, so that culture was always there in our house. So that culture was always there in our house.
Speaker 3:But definitely I think social media right now is nothing more than what I keep telling people. It's basically making a movie, but in 30 seconds you need that many creatives to do it and all of that. So definitely I think my film education what I saw, what I learned, education what I saw, what I learned and the people I was surrounded by have definitely helped me see that storytelling is not something that needs to be done in one way. There are several ways, which is why when people make movies like Animal also, for example. I don't think you have the right to like it, dislike it, but we don't have the right to say such a movie cannot be made, because everybody has the freedom for their creative expression. I think that was something that I really learned, which I think really works well with social media, because it's literally every brand or every person's expression that you see.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think with the animal as an example, automatically my brain goes to attempt to disagree but, we'll take that conversation somewhere else, but I do absolutely agree that creative freedom has to be there, because when you start curbing that, you are leading to a world of either molded people or a lot of other problems which come up with trying to curtail creative expression. So, shant, you have been an international tennis player, so let us talk about that. How did that go about? How did you come to?
Speaker 4:that it happened in a very I don't know. It was very unexpected for me to even go down that road, and I mean this as a kid, because generally when you're a kid you know you play sports and it's not unusual to be interested in sports. And I, as a kid, had no, I would say innate interest in pursuing it as a long-term thing. But when I was about 12 or 13 years old, I was playing tennis recreationally up until that point, but I ran into a coach who really saw love in me and he would, you know.
Speaker 4:He would push me every single day and say you know, this is what you can do. And, by the way, when I was 13 years old, I was already something like 5 foot 9.
Speaker 1:Wow, yeah, clearly.
Speaker 4:I went through a massive growth phase very early on, because I come from a family of tall people and so I started playing, you know, like under 14 nationally and within about six months I was ranked about 12 in the country. So I went through a very quick spurt over there and then so I continued playing and international became international under 18, you know, ranked about 15 in the country, so not fantastic where I was just winning tournaments and stuff, but doing well enough to be part of the circuit in some reasonable way.
Speaker 4:And then that led me to kind of a stint with a tennis coach from Australia who was based out of Italy at the time. So I was going to travel into the academy there and I was training there consistently. So, yeah, I think by the time I was in 19, 20, I'd ended up playing a few of the international. You know, professional tennis has like three runs to it. You have the top run, which is what you see on TV with the big names and so on, but then it has two below that and I was playing that bottom run of professional tournaments where you're just kind of getting your foot in the door with the professional circuit. So I did that for about a year, after which I got injured with the professional circuit. So I did that for about a year, after which I got injured. And so once I was injured I kind of had to stop doing it and I ended up going to college and you know life kind of took a slightly different direction from that point on.
Speaker 4:So yeah but it was.
Speaker 3:It was something out of this world it's a unique experience a lot of traveling, a lot of physical activity very tiring, can be stressful.
Speaker 4:A lot of the time it's its own kind of education, so that's something I'm able to bring into what I do today.
Speaker 1:I'm sure the discipline that you have with playing a professional sport that kind of helps you the rest of your life and everything else that kind of seeps in, doesn't it? Oh yeah, absolutely, in fact.
Speaker 4:I think for me a lot of the things that I think I managed to bypass some of the struggles people have you know and more as a byproduct of the kind of life I had back then, you know. So there was a concept of waking up early.
Speaker 4:There was a concept of just working really three in the evening, so five to six hours a day, and you do that like a school right, where you're doing it five days a week, six day, half day in the morning, and then you know you'd be exhausted a lot of the time and, uh, because of this, you got used to this idea of you know what I like to call the roadrunner approach when you're working, you're working really intense, and when you're resting, you're resting completely.
Speaker 4:that's how it is for a sportsman, which is something that I think people who haven't been through that experience perhaps either want to understand it or at least can relate to it. That easily, um, and you know so, you know I, I never smoked, I never drank, never got anywhere near those things which sometimes hold you back yeah, and it was more because that was just the way things worked at the time right.
Speaker 4:So when I transferred that into my you know, I became an employee, I worked at a company and so on. A lot of those things were just taking care of me waking up early, getting to work, doing things in a systematic way, thinking structure, thinking what my goal is that stuff kind of came fairly naturally to me. It was more about actually acquiring the skills for that specific profession. That became the real challenge for me. Got it?
Speaker 1:Now, how was it? How did it for both of you? You know the change diverging from your path of original career choice Not so far away if you think about it, with film studies and this. But how was the shift? And I understand with your family would have been easy with regards to them being also, in you know, more interested in the whole filmmaking. But how was the overall experience of choosing something which takes you away, diverges from the original career path?
Speaker 3:maybe so I think for me from when I was very young, I think my parents knew she's going to do something creative. As a 7-8 year old, I had very strong opinions about how I wanted my room to look or how I wanted to dress up, so these kind of things, I think, made my mom and dad realize that she's going to lean towards something creative. I also learned Bharatanatyam growing up, and I think my mom really wanted me to become like a professional dancer, but that didn't really pan out. Uh, because, firstly, we were growing up abroad, yeah, and so you know there were so many changes of teachers, this and that, so that wasn't really working out. Um, but when I went to my school where I did my 11th and 12th, it was an IB school, so you got to choose something creative, and film studies was one thing that they offered, so I was very intrigued by it and I thought, okay, let me try it. Up until then, we were thinking, you know, I would go to school and study maybe something tech, creative tech, something like that. But once I got into this, I was like, yeah, this is what I wanted to, you know, like room, and it was a very it was. We were five people in that classroom so we would all sit together, discuss films, and our teacher loved talking about films and all of that.
Speaker 3:So when it came to university, not only was it the subject, but it was also that I was going to London to study it. So it was quite a bit of investment from my parents side as well. Right, yeah, my dad was always like, why don't you do advertising, why don't you do media something, something like that. But I don't know, there was something about it that I wanted it to be film and so I study it, I come back, but then, of course, that's the recession time. So there's, you know, there are jobs called gaffers. All you have to do is basically hold lights and things like that. I wasn't even getting that.
Speaker 3:So it was back to India and my parents had moved three years before that and there was actually there was a lot of nervousness as to what are we going to do and stuff. And that's when I started my Teach for India fellowship, where I worked in a school. That's also where I met Sushant. I was going to ask how did you meet? Yeah, so we both met there. I think we are both pretty similar in the sense that we, we are very passionate about something. It didn't really pan out. We worked in something else, but then we have finally found our footing with, yeah, creating a business, I think, and so, yeah, it's.
Speaker 3:It's an interesting journey, how you get there and, of course, parents are a bit nervous, but I think my parents have been, honestly, both our parents have been so supportive in this whole thing. I don't think I would have the confidence of taking certain risks, yeah, if I didn't grow up with the parents I did. If I didn't see I would have the confidence of taking certain risks if I didn't grow up with the parents I did, if I didn't see my father doing the business he had done. So I think, definitely from their end they had hesitations, but it was not pressuring us to. It was never like figure it out, it was like how can we help you figure this out? So I think that was always having that kind of backing makes you feel like you can do anything.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, I think, especially when you're in your growing years or just out of college. I think that's also growing years.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like mentally you're in the world, you're just being thrown out at that time.
Speaker 1:Having that support, having somebody to guide you or even say, hey, we are here, take your time. You know, that makes a world of difference. Uh, the without having the pleasure. What about you? How was it?
Speaker 4:back at your house, um. So in my case it was actually very similar to what divya's talking about. I would say one of the differences we have encountered is um. In divya's case, the commonality is what really has I think the basis of support is entirely in what they have in common. They're all very into film, always knew that she was going to do something creative. In my case weirdly enough, the support comes from a more inverse kind of a thing, you know, which is to say, my parents have never been the business kind.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Well, my dad has a little bit, but I'd say, primarily we both we come from.
Speaker 4:Both my parents come from families where uh, being employed and rising up the corporate ladder was something that they were quite used to okay so when this happened, I think my parents realized that, okay, he's now again shifted into an area where he's doing something he's very passionate about. So I think that familiarity was already there. They had already been extremely supportive when I was just an early teen and wanted to travel the country to play a tournament, something they weren't prepared for, and at the time, in the beginning, there were a lot of questions about it. But because I insisted, they said all right, we'll support you till the end of the line, which they did. And then this happened again when I was employed for about six, six and a half years.
Speaker 4:I worked at three different companies, but then we said okay, you know what I think, divya and I are going to start and we're going to do something of our own, and they were like all right, go for it. So in their case it's so interesting because whatever they've always supported me for was not something they were familiar with at all, but they could understand. It was more at a very, you know, deeper level. They could understand what it feels like to want to do something and they respected your passion.
Speaker 1:I think that makes a big difference. Yeah, they did you know, and they are the kind of people who really understand what it means to spend your life doing something.
Speaker 4:That means something yeah because even if you are struggling, it's a different kind of struggle. You know you struggle either way there are always phases of struggle.
Speaker 4:There is no easy way out, but there is the struggle you want versus the struggle you don't, and you need to respect that difference because it makes all the difference to A your mental health and B also, what you are likely to look back on years later. I struggled, but which struggle was really worth it, and I think you know this is something which I always think of, as some people call it, the dead bag question you know, looking back am I glad I did that.
Speaker 4:I can say yes to a lot of the things I've done, but I can also say no to some of the things I've done, and that difference kind of tells you how you probably should be making your decisions and and all four parents are very excited, you know, when we give them even the smallest uh things.
Speaker 3:You know, and be like, oh yeah, we got this one client that we've been working to get for like three, four months. When we got them. Or it's like, oh yeah, we are just starting to build the website, or you know, we have hired somebody new like they're very excited and they ask you questions about it. Yeah, they're very much like okay, you know they're in this, so we're also going to be in this. So I always feel like, um, like I keep telling Sushant this I always feel like there are like four pillars behind us that are always like we're there you know, on your bad day, on your good day, like we know.
Speaker 3:They're there and it's amazing that now we have four of them, you know.
Speaker 4:So it's pretty great, you know if I may kind of take it more in the bring the negative angle to it a little bit when you sometimes hear stories about people who don't have that support yes but have all these other struggles that you're anyway going through. You realize, how lucky you are.
Speaker 4:And you realize that. You know, I think in our case we have four parents who really set the benchmark for what it means to be a supportive parent, and it's not like as of they agree with everything you do so it's not like they're just kind of being a pushover about it, it's very. You know I have questions, but if you're doing it for the right reasons, even if I don't agree, I still support it yeah and that is a gift like nothing.
Speaker 4:Anybody I mean. I think if you've lived enough or old enough, you kind of understand exactly what that, what it means to have those things absolutely.
Speaker 1:I think, yeah with my family is very similar to your family, right? There's not an ounce of creativity in my family which has come down in me. Also, there is nothing right. Um, I think I'm only creative with coming up with, if I can call that creativeness. Also, I think that coming up with ideas of oh how this business can this?
Speaker 3:can be an idea. This is a good business idea.
Speaker 1:I think I would give myself that much uh. But yeah, similarly I my parents uh, not even corporate. They're very regular. My dad was an ex-railway government employee, my mom was a teacher and for generations the families have known nothing but to be an employee and work make ends meet and go on.
Speaker 1:You retire and you go on with your life. There's never been very high achieving dreams. Or you know, struggle what everybody struggles, you struggle dreams. Or you know you struggle what everybody struggles, you struggle. And so the idea of me getting into business. I've been trying to do different things from very, very early on I think from 2008-9, before my son was even born. I've been trying to come up with different ideas, things. Clearly, a lot of them did not work. Some did not work because they were not a great idea, some because life comes in your way and a lot things.
Speaker 1:While my parents have sometimes been most times been extremely stressed out, like, oh my god, like you know you, they'll keep reminding me look, you have a degree which is amazing. Like why you not? You should be working in one of these big pharma companies or in a hospital. What are you doing with this? When I got into the fitness thing also, I think at every point my parents felt sometimes that you know she's gonna get over this and so. But when this took off and they realize in three to three years that this was actually something I was sticking with, because I was not only continuing with the work I was adding and branching out, expanding, expanding it, and they realize, okay, I'm gonna be doing this. So while, yes, uh, you know there's, there's, I think, still fear, like I was telling earlier before we started recording how my mother thinks I'm too old to do this physical kind of work like my joints are gonna fall in but I think there is still that support and there is a cheerleading for you.
Speaker 1:Every time you do something, you achieve something. My husband also. We both met in college and our education is pretty similar. I am a master's in medical microbiology, he's in biotechnology. We both studied something else, we are doing something else, but somewhere similar to our fields, like I'm still in the health and wellness.
Speaker 1:He is into brewing, which is also biotechnology, biochemistry, all of it, and both our parents are very supportive. I think my father-in-law is the most open-minded in all of these between all of them, I think, because he is experienced and he had run businesses of his own, so that's why he understands how these things are, while still other three might not understand it completely. There's always that support and I think without that support, like you said, said it's absolutely impossible, because you need your immediate circle to you know, cheer for you and that doesn't happen. It's very easy to go down because business is very challenging. Running your own, starting something, is very challenging. Like you said, both are challenging, like, if I think, yes, the struggles of running your own business, where sometimes you wonder if you will make any revenue this month, versus working in a company where you are absolutely unhappy despite getting a seven eight figure, check.
Speaker 1:It's both a struggle, it's both a struggle. So I rather do this because I feel like I'm building something. So, absolutely agree. How about the inspiration behind the info? How did you guys come with that idea of starting this?
Speaker 3:I think it was pretty organic. What had happened was we were in Bangalore, sushant was working there and COVID had happened, so he was working from home. I was not doing anything at that point and it was a friend of mine who said who was doing a digital marketing course and she was like, why don't you also do something in that? So I also started doing the same course and I went through it and I saw all the similarities between film and that, and then, of course, also as a user of social media, you already have a little bit of knowledge, and I think mine, with the filmmaking part of it, took care of a lot of the knowledge of how to create a good reel, for example.
Speaker 3:Right after that got done, I started interning with a company and I was kind of taking care of everything and building their social media and all of that stuff. And that is when he decided to quit the job that he was doing and we also decided to move back to Hyderabad. Yeah, um, so it's basically me working on this and it was actually a pretty rough year for us because, um, job wise, he had let go of one and, um, health wise also, there was something that had come down for him and there was a flooding in his parents house. So you know, when they say, when it rains, it pours.
Speaker 3:Yeah, this was just exactly yeah yeah it was just one thing after another, after another, after another and somehow organically, I started talking to Sushant about the work I was doing and I was posting about it on my Instagram. So other people actually started reaching out to us and saying you know, would you help us with social media? And I was telling Sushant he's really good with writing, constructing ideas, putting ideas together and all of that. So I was like why don't you help me out a little bit? He was still interviewing for jobs and stuff and then he started helping me, but then I think slowly he started getting more and more involved into how do we build this? Because I was like every day, okay, this needs to be done. But he was kind of silently like, okay, I see potential here, how do we make this bigger?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean it was very interesting because, I mean, often the best things happen organically. So, like she said, when I was looking for jobs, one of the things I've always been relating to is writing, because I've always valued communication, specifically English communication, and when I did a master's degree it was in philosophy and public policy and there's a lot of writing work involved there.
Speaker 3:I enjoy constructing arguments, constructing even passages, now, of course social media isn't quite like that, but there is a transferable element where students are concerned.
Speaker 4:So when it started with just me writing a few captions, and then you know, I had one person she was interning with, which kind of we restructured in a way that they became the first client. Then a second person came, and then a third person came and, before you knew it, there were four small brands that were each looking for social media work, of which she was working on design, I was working on writing and so on writing and that went on for about three or four months, and yeah, next thing, you know, we were thinking hey, why don't?
Speaker 4:we convert this into a business and then, once we did that and we even went to official paperwork, and all that's when we made our first mistake.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was my next question. Like new businesses are, anything is a challenge throughout, especially with the new businesses. What were the ones that you faced and what are the mistakes you're talking about?
Speaker 4:So all of this was happening in June 2021. We had started around February 2021. So within three to four months, talking June July, we got an offer from a company in the US to do a lot of the work, which was very, very similar, but they were not contacting us as a company okay, as a client as a.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they were not coming as a client, they were looking to kind of hire us as professional content okay so me for writing work and they've got a lead designer got.
Speaker 4:And that's when the question came up. Okay, if we do this, it's going to be a lot of volume based repetitive work that isn't going to build a business. But the pay was outstanding, and that's when we had to take a call and we were in a kind of two minds about it.
Speaker 4:Should we go with it or should we just build? And in the end we decided to go with it, and we did that for about a year and a half, during which the company was pretty much stagnant we did no work on it, except maybe you know, because word of mouth always brings your client and then you also? Have a kind of churn rate. Okay, ended up having three, four clients and stayed there and then abruptly that whole thing came to an end.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Okay, because there were issues with the owner there. And then, you know, things were not going well. Their own business model was not working out and we were not big decision makers over there, so we had to end it suddenly. Okay. And so a year and a half after officially starting our business more than that, actually, about a year and eight months we're again finding ourselves starting from scratch because we barely done any real work. Yeah, we barely investigated social media and stuff like that so when we talk about it from for all, practical purposes.
Speaker 4:We've only been doing it for actually, you know, since october of 2022 yeah, and that's when I think we realized that our big mistake was we focused on earning as opposed to learning, and this is something that if I were to give an early stage entrepreneur any advice, I would say this focus in the beginning on learning as opposed to learning.
Speaker 3:You are not going to earn try what you want.
Speaker 4:Try as you might. You are not going to earn a lot deal with that, but you know the good results are going to come later on, so don't worry about that, yeah, yeah, and don't ever, I think, put something.
Speaker 3:Sometimes, you know, these offers come around that look very shiny and nice and you are kind of like, okay, maybe Don't think about that, just be working on your product, on your business, whatever it might might be, give it its full focus, and you will see that that two years of struggle and hardship that you've put there, suddenly it kind of, like you know, takes off. And that's when you're you would be like, oh, oh damn, you know, okay, so this is kind of how it works and of course I'm not saying it's only two years, it could be five years, we don't know how long. Journeys are different, but having that dedication and I think that's what actually makes or breaks a lot of businesses right, you just going there and doing it day after and day after and just being on your worst days and on your best days, just keep going there and doing your work yeah, I think the the key word is consistency.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no matter what, and I think this, like I, was the discipline which comes from your sports, or consistency, all of these things which will always hold you in good stead in any part of your life, right, like with as a coach, I keep telling everybody it doesn't matter if you work out for 10 minutes or one hour, the idea is to show up for a bit. The consistency is what matters, and it's the same with business. I think, day in, day out, you have to keep doing that. Was it a pivotal moment where you felt that, hey, this is where I think that the info is really taking off um, I would say we're.
Speaker 3:I, yeah, I think so. I think it's feeling that way right now, where we are a lot clearer about, like, different things, the different aspects to a business, right. So I think in each department, we're feeling a lot more confident, a lot more clear about what the goals are. I mean, we used to have a huge whiteboard in our house where we had so many questions written on it and you know, like, do you go that way, do you go this way? And there are still questions, of course, but I feel like a lot of the questions that 2022, 2023, divya and sushant were asking we're able to answer them now and I feel like that itself, having very clear goals and ideas as to what we are going to do.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it, it gives you a piece of mind and you also know that, oh, okay, cool, this is going to happen. And when you start cracking a little bit in each of those departments and you see that progress, oh, okay, cool, this is going to happen. And when you start cracking a little bit in each of those departments and you see that progress, you're like, yeah, I know I can do this, so I think it's there. I feel like 2025 we're predicting would be that year where it, like, really pushes forward.
Speaker 4:That's all yeah, like I said about you know, really beginning from ground up, actually around 2020 to October we spent about a year and a half, which means 2024, early, and we learned a ton about social media through a lot of experiments that we did. But one very interesting thing that came up around March, April was this ended up being a conversation that we ended up having and I said to Divya I think we know a lot about social media, but I don't think we know that much about running a business and that kind of was like a light bulb moment for
Speaker 3:both of us you know, and we realized that see entrepreneurship.
Speaker 4:A good part of it is you being very very clear and honest about what you're not good at.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 4:It does that to you. It exposes not just what you're not good at, but every weakness that you have personality wise.
Speaker 2:It dangles it in front of you and says literally what are you going to?
Speaker 4:do about this?
Speaker 3:This is where you suck.
Speaker 4:You either fix it or you live in denial, and the latter is long term quite painful yeah so we realized this, and so that's when I said okay, you know, what I'm going to start doing is I'm going to start going after business coaching. As far as you know, I can within within our means, and so I signed up for business coaching and we paid amounts that we couldn't even afford at times just so that we could learn what we did not know.
Speaker 4:And that was in May of this year and it was just the two of us at the time, after a year and a half of trying to build, it was still only the two of us working and between then and now, just six months, we now actually got a team with us.
Speaker 2:So that's the real transformation.
Speaker 4:That, I think, is to answer your question about it being a pivotal moment. I think these last few months have really changed the way we look at different things, the way we measure things. Uh, like we talked about departments, we're thinking very, you know, compartmentalized, you're integrated, sort of where you've got your marketing, you've got your sales, you've got your operations. You tend to get stuck in operations because, that's the passion, that's the thing you like doing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I totally agree. I'm really sorry for cutting you off suddenly, but my background also the last jobs I've held is in operations, the last company when, before I quit, I was the head of operations for a health tech company. So I'm really good at operations and I suck at sales. My husband is also really bad at sales. I'm bad at sales because I haven't ever done it, so there's not a lot of knowledge.
Speaker 1:My husband's also A that B. He's a much more quieter, introvert person so he finds it harder with his nature to do it. I at least can you know little. I think my ego is a little bigger. So I have to push that and say, hey, this work, go do it. But because I'm good at operations, I realized that I would make myself feel good by just focusing on operations. My operations is on spot. Yeah, everything is perfect. Like you know, I'm at it and you know there are times, which I was discussing earlier my husband and I fight, but certain things with operations and everything, I overrule him because I have this confidence. I know I know better than you. But sales, both of us are like trying to hide behind each other, because we both are not good at it.
Speaker 1:And now you know we have reached a point which is not especially at least with Tripitaka, which is our kombucha in the food business that we have reached a place where it's time to stop hiding. We know we are not good and our operations are great. Our product line is ready. We really need to get into sales. So either one of us teaches ourselves that, either on ground or, you know, go ahead and study something, which I have been considering or we hire somebody. I find hiring somebody is a smarter option for me. Yeah, because how many things will I teach myself? That's true.
Speaker 1:Right, and I'm already like my brain is scattered between three businesses, so it just doesn't make sense for me to try to teach something. It would be great as a knowledge to learn. Of course I'd like to learn. I like to keep doing a lot of courses every now and then study, but it'll be smarter to go hire somebody, because all of us can't be experts in everything, so it's just not possible. But yeah, I think that's something you're absolutely right. You can't hide your flaws glare at you.
Speaker 4:There's this real silver lining, which turns into a golden kind of a moment when you realize that you know, like you say, sales is not your thing, it's not your husband's thing, and when you do it you're going to be terrible at it, yes, but it's okay to be terrible at something the first time you do it.
Speaker 3:You're going to be terrible, yes, but it's okay to be terrible the first time you do it. Right, like?
Speaker 4:the first time in the beginning we were actually having this conversation this morning, the beginning when I would take care of sales calls. You know, awful yeah I didn't even know what I was looking for in a lot of those things you know, when the person says, hey, can you drop the special, I say yes or no yeah when they say okay, you know, can you do this additional service. Should I say yes or no?
Speaker 2:If.
Speaker 4:I say yes that means I'm more likely to get the client If. I say no, that means I'm going to be more focused and maybe it's about a long term approach. I have no idea what the right thing is.
Speaker 4:Also, I would walk in blind. No sales pitch, nothing to pitch. I didn't even know what to pitch. And I was also terrified of this thing of if I give them a standard pitch and it completely misses the mark. I'm worried I won't do enough listening right. So you have all these questions that are going to happen, but then, after a while you keep doing, you start seeing a pattern. Okay let me structure a loose sales pitch around this.
Speaker 2:So if the person wants me to talk.
Speaker 4:This is what I'm going to say. If they're going to talk, then I will take them through it in the way that I think will ultimately yield the same kind of a result and seeing that transformation happen in any field that you are in the beginning not good at yeah is a huge confidence boost and you know, I think it kind of touches on what you were saying. We're not able to think of a specific pivotal moment because we see our confidence increasing in installments yeah, right, and.
Speaker 4:I'm never going to be a salesman through and through. You know you're going to have a salesperson who you hire, like you said but do I want to know enough about?
Speaker 3:sales, so that I know who I'm hiring and whether or not I'm good at it.
Speaker 2:That's really important.
Speaker 4:My learning curve should reach that point where I can at least say, okay, this is what I'm looking for in the person, and I think that's one of the great joys in learning how to run a business because you get to dabble in each of the different things and there are the big seven. Right, you have your marketing, you have your sales operations and you do that right. You started the business you have your HR, your R&D and your learning. And I'm missing one, but I think there are six or seven accounts right so you learn a little bit about all of these.
Speaker 4:You never end up being the boss of any of them except maybe one or two things. And now you have the thinking I can start hiring. I know how to manage. If I ever have a terrible problem, I know how to fire. Also, I know how to build a culture. And these are skills that I think early stage entrepreneurs sometimes avoid because they think it defeats the purpose of following your passion, but I think that's a misconception.
Speaker 3:And it's also scary, right, let's just be honest, like your first few sales calls are. They go terribly and you're scared.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think you know it also depends on how much A your personality, b what experience and background you have had in life that prepares you for those bad sales calls. Right, like my husband and I, we are finally. We are still bad at it, but we have finally figured out who takes over which conversation, right?
Speaker 2:The.
Speaker 1:Moment the creative or making of how is kombucha made, what is the process and all. I just go quiet and let him answer what is the process and all.
Speaker 1:I just go quiet and let him answer the moment it comes into the pricing and delivery or you know what a lot of other parts operational part and everything I like jump into the conversation before he can speak. Because we both have our flaws. I tend to be a little rigid with what I'm ready to offer you and he tends to over promise things. So we need to find that balance between us that you know what are we like? Just the last sales call, he promised something before I could stop him, which made zero sense, like. And then he's yesterday. He's like I. Why did I say that? Why were you talking? That was my part, but I think that's okay.
Speaker 1:I think it's fine completely and you're learning and you also learn with all of this that you can salvage almost everything. Yeah, these are not do or die situations. You can always go back to a client. Yes, some of them wouldn't want to come to you, some of them will just, and which is also okay.
Speaker 3:There's it is always going to be people that don't want to work with you absolutely, and you know you should just be completely okay with that, like like, if you got every client you spoke to, that's actually a horrible situation to be in clearly something is off yeah exactly, probably your pricing yeah exactly.
Speaker 3:It comes down to your pricing, right? Yeah, so I completely agree with that. That. You know you start learning what divisions to have. You start learning that, okay, this is what I'm taking care of, this is what you're taking care of. Yeah, I mean, recently I think, there was one sales pitch that went really well for him and we were both. I was listening because I was in the other room and after he's done, he was like our sales have got pitches have gotten so much better and I was like, yeah, I was listening to it too and I was like nothing compared to what it was like in the beginning.
Speaker 3:So I think those, if you concentrate on those joys and you're not always stuck to just your profit and revenue, yeah, you see that there's improvement, but when it? But of course, the mind being what it is and our environment being what it is, the profit and revenue are given the biggest thing, correct. So there are days when you look at that it's not where it wants, where you want it to be, and that definitely brings you down. He has bad days, I have bad days to do with that, but then two days later, we are back to doing our work and back to laughing and having a good time with what you're doing. So you know that. Okay, you just have to be okay with it and get back to it.
Speaker 4:Like you said, consistency you remember the first time? Actually, what was interesting was a few months ago. There was one sales call that I did, where it went so well and the person didn't end up converting. But I think we realized that something had changed. That was the first time we actually felt good about a sales call after more than a year and a half. And now those same good sales calls are leading to a good thing which is what we feel really good about.
Speaker 4:And like Divya says if you're not finding joy in these little things in the process, then you're doing something wrong.
Speaker 1:Talking about profit, revenue, joy, I think. One thing which comes to my mind, and this has been one of the very important questions we have discussed this season uh, I am part of that too. Like I think we, you know, we have some kind of privilege and luxury to make these choices and go this career path while not having to struggle. You know, I think a lot of people might hear this and say, hey, this is something I've come across people saying hey, so lucky, you're so awesome that you're following your passion. Wish I could do that too. That wish is a very important thing. It's not only because you don't have the courage. We have to understand that people like us, who are able to pursue, have some kind of privilege behind us that we are able to. A lot of. It is the financial support we have and because of which they can't pursue. Yeah, you want to. Yeah 100.
Speaker 3:I mean, uh, firstly, there are parents being self-sufficient. Yes, so when you come, when you have four parents who are self-sufficient, you're already there's one part of it that's already taken care of. Then you know that, like I keep telling Sushant this, if one day we are like absolutely bankrupt, we have zero rupees. There are two homes that I mean they're not going to be happy about it, but they're not going to say don't come in. You do have a bed somewhere and you know, not just for us but for our dogs too, you know to kind of go there and that is an absolute privilege to have. And I think another thing also that I have realized after marriage is also for parents that do not push their agenda of how to live your life.
Speaker 3:Yes, when it comes to both of us, for example, we are in our 30s, we ever had a kid yet and there's absolutely nobody in the family that's like you need to have a kid. Now it's very much the thing of do you guys want to? If you are okay, have, don't have, give it a thought. You know it's, it's, it's very, um, it's very. They very much understand that these are two individuals who have their own ideas, who are going to lead their life in their way, and I think that is also a privilege that we often forget, because a lot of times we think about privilege as money, education how you were raised, but it's also after marriage. Are you being let, yeah, to do what it is that you want to and how you want to do it?
Speaker 1:I agree. I mean, it's not just money right. Money of course makes a big difference, of course, yes, about it like that you want to and how you want to do it. I agree, I mean, it's not just money right. Money of course makes a big difference.
Speaker 2:Of course, let's be, honest about it.
Speaker 1:Like, if you don't there are, through COVID, my husband and I, because we both were in fields which were dependent on people like I was still doing individual training one-on-one personal training online hadn't taken off. He was a brewer. Hospitality was shut for a year. We made no money from beer or brewing for a year.
Speaker 1:Mine for two months. We didn't make money, like for two months, not having a penny coming home. But you being able to live with a kid school fees don't stop, your expenses don't stop and you being able to live tells you what kind of financial support you have. But at the same time, yes, all this experimentation me going on my retreats for 10 days, going away, and the support I've had otherwise with my dog, with my son, with my house, with my parents, with my in-laws, with other things too, like you know, my father-in-law like I said earlier, it's super supportive and my mother-in-law too, and you know, know, like this office is something that you know we have taken from them and we're using it.
Speaker 1:If we didn't have these support or of them is just, I cannot imagine uh doing these things and that's a privilege. And I don't think people who do not have these supports, for whatever reasons, right, uh, should beat themselves up that why am I stuck in a job and I should follow my passion? Yeah, everybody follows their passion. We will pretty much not have uh, the world won't run the way it, you know, needs to run so much.
Speaker 3:And I think specifically women also. I think the minute a woman becomes a daughter-in-law, there's a lot of things that come with it, and I think I am probably one of the, I would say, most privileged daughter-in-laws, where my in-laws are never offended by anything, you know. And actually my in-laws are very excited whenever I tell them oh, we're working on this project and you know, when you, they respect work. Yeah. So when there is, let's say, a festival, there are Malayalis, let's say there's vishu, and you have a dinner or something there, but you can't make it because I have a shoot somewhere else.
Speaker 3:So only he can go. But let's say I cannot go, they will, they will. There'll be no question that how can she go there and not come, or something like that. It's like of course she has to go there. It's work, you know. So I feel like there is that, um, there there is that equality of seriousness when it comes to my career and his career. It's not that mine is lesser than his and I should take care of stuff at home. That is not there.
Speaker 1:I think, as a woman, a married woman, that's another privilege, also, huge one, especially in the society we live in, asian communities, indian communities, no matter even the younger generation, there is still this whole responsibility attached, this pressure attached, to a woman saying you are supposed to be available. There would be times when I know so many in my circle that doesn't matter what's happening, but as a daughter-in-law, you have to be available in presence, so that makes such a huge privilege.
Speaker 1:Definitely, how has it been balancing your lives as life partners and business partners? Have you found the balance? I think we've done. Sorry, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:Was that too hard?
Speaker 3:To both of you, it's okay you can go ahead. No, I just said somewhat. You can go on, okay. No, I just said somewhat.
Speaker 4:you can go on, okay. So see in the beginning we didn't have a specific structure to it. And you know you can get away with that up to a certain point. What we did realize, I think, after a certain point, once we started like I told you, we started compartmentalizing things right and within business, you start doing that. You're saying okay, marketing is this is how it's going, say this is how it's going, cwb is this is how it's going, r&d is this is how it's going.
Speaker 2:What we realized was that those areas were improving because we were having the conversation.
Speaker 4:There's this concept of having the conversation, which even couples that are not working together sometimes miss. That's where a lot of issues start to crop up. So we, like any couple, we have our share of disagre. Any couple, we have our share of disagreements. We have a share of fights, but what we notice was that the fights often happen in very specific areas. Divya comes from a business family. A business family understands how flow of money works differently when you're running a business.
Speaker 2:I have zero experience with that.
Speaker 4:So for me, I'm still thinking in the beginning of entrepreneurship, I'm thinking savings kitta hai you know this and that, and how much are we putting aside for this and that? And all of that is just nonsensical in the early stages right, because you need to realize that, like I said earlier, you're not going to be getting the earnings right off the bat.
Speaker 4:So this was one example of an area where we were having disagreements, but we were not having the conversation. So we started incorporating smaller things from our personal life and having conversations about those the way we would for larger things which are specifically for the business, right. So let's say, every Saturday, we sit together and say, okay, here's how we're doing food for the week, here's the days on which we're not going to be working at all in the evenings and it's just going to be you and me spending time together on a personal level away from work. And when you start doing that and you say, okay, this is work, this is where our personal life, this is the boundary and this is when you do it. It will not always work according to plan. The fact that you both have your sights set on specific things being done a certain way and you've agreed on the timings, you find that your balance is kicking in very beautifully. We spend our weekends, for example, with our friends. More often than not. We don't even take laptops phone I barely use during the weekends.
Speaker 4:So you've put boundaries and I think your ability to put a boundary there and say no, even if your mind is coming in and saying hey, but there's so much growth left for the business. Should we be doing more and more and more? I think you need to have that ability because, no matter how much money you earn in the future, what are you going to do with all of it? That's not above and beyond things that you're already doing like we get to go to restaurants and we eat food there.
Speaker 4:Yeah, we get to spend time with people. Occasionally we get to travel to our domestic location. We're not here doing international events Correct. Yeah, all of those are at worst, and in many cases they're not even that, but at worst they are dial-down experiences of what you would do in your own area. Yeah, yes, right, so you At worst.
Speaker 2:They are dial-down experiences of what you would do with your millionaires. So you are getting the sasta version. What's wrong with the sasta version? You are happy with the sasta version.
Speaker 4:How much more happier you are going to be with the big version and all of that. Having all of that in the periphery and recognizing that, you sort of realize that we need to spend time together now as well. We need to do things that are good for our personal life now as well, and for that you need to set time, which means you have to say no to certain things.
Speaker 4:You just do that, and in the beginning it was a bit uncomfortable for me because I'm the kind of person who can stretch Seven days working twelve hours a day.
Speaker 2:I'll do it.
Speaker 4:OK now, just because I can't doesn't mean I should.
Speaker 2:So that's where I think in our case.
Speaker 4:Divya has helped me kind of get to that point where it's like, you know, let's put a ball here and let's I find I'm happier for it. So that's how we kind of found it and you brought up friends.
Speaker 3:I think we should add this the group of friends we have in Hyderabad are all doing their own businesses too, so everyone's working on their. That makes a big difference. So you know, one of our closest friends is like a rice trader. Another closest friend he's building like a fire thing for hiking.
Speaker 3:It's like a stove, yeah, yeah, yeah, so, and you know he's, he's working on it, um, through the day. So there are times when we work from one of our friends houses too and everyone's on their laptop doing their own thing. But everybody is, everybody understands that. Okay, this is, this is not like a regular job where everybody knows this is how much you're making and be like, we'll do this trip, we'll do that trip. So everyone's very understanding.
Speaker 3:When we say, listen, I don't think we can make it to that trip, nobody gets offended. That's very important. Nobody gets like pissed off if we say, okay, you know what, next two weeks, let's just do potluck to you know, be okay with it, because health is also another thing. Right're in, everyone's in their 30s now, so you're really thinking how can you be more healthy? Um, and I feel like the bunch of friends we have here are very, very understanding of those things which makes it, which makes weekends so light and easy and enjoyable, right, but uh, coming back to your question, uh think for me, growing up, I had, I had very less nose when it comes to buying things.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there was a lot of discipline with keeping things clean your bedtime, your food, everything but money. At that point at least it was never an issue. So for me, hearing no, you cannot spend on this is very, very hard to think. It's like my and I and I, and it's very hard for him to understand, but it's literally like my world is crumbling around me and because he said, he said is it really necessary for you to buy a curtain like one panel?
Speaker 3:that costs like some three grand okay, so it's and but to me it's like that curtain is absolutely necessary for how this house needs to look. And you know, and I kid you not, when I was young, my parents took me to buy the curtains in my bedroom when I was like eight years old or something. And you know, growing up there was just a lot of travel, a lot of buying of things. It was a very, very different lifestyle to what it is right now for me, and so a lot of the smaller things that for him would be a very casual thing, for me is just like my world is changing and the mind is so dramatic. Okay, the mind is just like your. This is not a life you should be living. Why are you doing this so slowly?
Speaker 3:I think I also started understanding. Obviously, logic kicks in at one point and you're like okay, dude, these are places where you need to do it. But I think what you grow up with is so hard to break out of. You're so used to a certain kind of Especially, I think that your teen years and all of that, it kind of gets cemented in your head and to unlearn those things and break out of it and have those money conversations where you know it's like okay, this week this is where all I have spent, you know, for me it's like, but I just spent thousand on something. Do I really need to come and tell you that in my head it's like I'm spent. You know, for me it's like, but I just spent 1000 on something. Do I really need to come and tell you that in my head it's like I'm reporting to you, whereas in his head it's like no, we're just looking at how things are going.
Speaker 3:So those are conversations that start off as fights and then you kind of look at it. You understand, but I think you aren't. I especially, I think, really took a step back and understood how we were both, when we were youngsters as well, and how much that impacts a relationship. And of course, we are doing this because we are running a business together. But I think every couple needs to do this, because you are brought up so differently. Suddenly you're in a house where you have that you have similar priorities but also slightly different ones, like my curtain, for example, and you know it just breaks everything and everyone's just like what is happening, you know. So I think those conversations that you keep having having makes you understand other better.
Speaker 1:I think money conversation is really important and it's very interesting, like you know, with us, I think, similar background. Again, I'm not similar in that way, but yeah, money was something you wondered Growing up. Also, there was a yes or no to certain things. If I go back and think I wasn't in want of anything while growing up I didn't feel like, hey, I didn't get this in my life. I had a great childhood when I grew up but of course, I was very starkly aware of how different my you know things I got was versus to my classmates around me. More so, growing up, by high school I had people around me who had paid a lot more money than you know my family did.
Speaker 1:And my dad was a regular railway employee.
Speaker 1:So you went to good schools, you did whatever, but there was even eating out, was extravagant, right. So you did that twice a year and so simple things. Like you get clothes on me on birthday, you don't get. You know, you don't get to just go out, meet your friends, every, you can't. Pizza was just new at that time in my high school. So you can't just keep going out, your friends go, you have to say no. Yeah, like I was in my masters. I'll never forget this.
Speaker 1:For my masters, my, the college was Mangalore in KMC Manipal, so Mangalore was my campus. So we went for the counseling. I wasn't even yet aware if I was going to get the seat okay so but we grew up in, I grew up in Raipur, chhattisgarh. So Raipur to Mangalore is really really far by train. It was 48 hours changing three trains and my dad was a railway employee. So obviously we were doing trains and obviously in those times flights were not even an option. This is early 2000. And my father, we pack all my luggage and go, because if I get the admission, just drop me and come. There's no time to go back and forth. We went there, he dropped me In all my, I got the admission I was he. We do the counselling. He drops me in the hostel by evening. He has left. Okay, he didn't even stay for a day.
Speaker 1:He's like figure it out you know, I had already been living away from family for a while now, so I was comfortable. But I didn't have a pillow, because packing a pillow was too much of a thing. He's like buy a a pillow. But my dad was so stuck in his idea of how much money I need or, yeah, not deserve how need, his idea, which was right for him because it was dependent on what he was earning.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and he had another kid, also still growing up. My younger sister was still there at home and my fees was not like you know. You're paying quite a bit going to these medical colleges. Now my, my hostel uh, everything was prepaid. You pay annually, right, but monthly hostel food would come to a 1400 rupees average food and electricity. Each room had its own meter so we had to be very mindful of switching off our meter when we are leaving and you eat any non-veg item it's added, so I had to be very mindful. I can eat only chicken once in 10 days, like I wouldn't want to eat more because my dad is sending me 2000 rupees.
Speaker 1:1400 basic is going, so I'm left with 600. So the day month I eat off chicken or something, I'll be left with 300. In that 300 is everything my shampoo, my soap, yeah. So I didn't buy a pillow because I was. I was left with no money for a pillow and my roommates finally gifted me a pillow on my birthday, saying please, use a pillow and sleep Like you know what is this. And my friends would say at that time I remember they'd be like we have to go for a movie. So I had a deal with myself right, either a movie or a dinner in a month, that's all I could afford in that money. So they were like it's okay, you pay us later. I was like, no, no, no, that's not happening, you know, because I don't want to.
Speaker 1:For me, all of these are luxuries in life and so it was very drilled down that anything that is you can't fit in your means. Luxury comes when you have excess money. It doesn't come with, you know, your savings. You can't break your savings to go on a holiday, yeah, so that. And my husband didn't come with so much, you know, he came with a very relaxed and, you know, financially much more open family. So that has been very because I can like, I can get rigid with a lot of things in a lot of ways because my upbringing has been like that it's all very close. This is hard limit, hard limit and everything. For him it's not so. It's all very close, this is hard limit, hard limit and everything For him it's not so. It's very confusing for him why I would behave a certain way.
Speaker 1:But having said that, both our working lives, we made enough money to be very comfortable in our small household. Again, sasta wala, enjoyment. We are doing that Later years, of course. I'm now in my 40s. So the later companies I was working at, I got paid enough to go international trips by myself. Solo holidays I would do, and that's where the whole thing of you know traveling came up. But and with a kid also, we never discussed. Both are earning enough, the house is running, fees are being paid, great. The moment we both decide to go in business, it all comes crashing down and we have never had these conversations because it was there was no need. You made money, I made money you have your own savings.
Speaker 1:Yeah, nobody is asking each other what you're doing. He doesn't believe in insurance. So I'm doing insurance for everybody. This month you pay fees, next year I'm paying fees. So and it's not like a decision, huh, fees I take, I'm doing the transfer. It's.
Speaker 1:It's very organic in a sense, yeah, but the moment we go into businesses and there's no money, such a crunch, and we have never had the conditions. The fights were mostly about money Because you didn't know how to converse about it, and there was at a point that he said, like I think we need to sit down and learn how to talk about money. I was getting very defensive because I felt like, do I have to explain what I'm doing with my money?
Speaker 1:Because, hey, I've been independent all my life and now we are at a place where, as a business, we're making money together, and he's making money with his brewing, my work, my fitness, because it came down. I don't make a lot of money of my own, so now I have to sometimes ask for money, and which make it so hard? Yeah, it's very hard and he doesn't understand why it's so hard for me. He's like I don't understand, but have I ever questioned? I'm like no, but I have never asked for money.
Speaker 1:So it's really, really hard to come forward and ask, and I think it is very important, like you said, and even you know, uh, what you said about making time. I keep telling him like let's not talk shop after a certain time? Yeah, can we not talk shop at dinner? I'm like I don't want to and like when we're going on a car ride somewhere, he'll play a podcast about something with food and I'll listen to it.
Speaker 1:I'm like, no, I don't want to listen to it. I'm like, let's listen to a podcast which is funny. I like true crime, so let's listen to that. Let's listen to music. You want me to listen to something with work? You send me the link. I'll listen to it doing work hours. You don't play it when we're going for a dinner party and he can't understand why I'm so frustrated. But that comes. I can stretch, like you, I can work and I have done it. But I think I've reached a burnt out. Now, with three businesses, I'm reaching that place where I'm really frustrated with thinking and talking about work all the time. But for him, this is the first business that he's into, so he, his brain, is always working.
Speaker 1:Why won't you talk? Because I'm like, because my life just becomes about that, can we not? Can we put a break? I think, with my son coming back home it has helped because we can't talk shop a lot. But that will last only another month. But, yes, this is something we are exploring too, and I think it doesn't matter how long you've been married New circumstances, new things. You need to have a conversation to figure out how you're going to deal with it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we have like an evening earmark, like in a week, where we just sit together we talk about absolute rubbish, nothing that is important, like movies or something we read somewhere, just like absolutely fun things. That you know we sometimes it could get serious topics, like you do talk about religion and your spirituality and things like that, but it's all. But it's all non-work.
Speaker 4:Yes, you know it doesn't have consequences.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah and and I think something that he has also done which I think is very helpful for me is when we are at a unusual time or place, he'll be like can I just talk to you about work? One thing, get it. And then he brings it up and I'm like okay, cool, you know it's one thing, he's given me a heads up, so I know that this is how it needs to kind of go person who tends to stretch has to ask for permission, and the person who wants to draw the boundary will dictate how much they're okay so you do that.
Speaker 4:Then you can have these little pockets where it doesn't stretch past a certain amount sometimes you need to say something quickly, because you might say, because I might forget yeah, yeah, yeah you know, and you know what you said about the whole money thing.
Speaker 4:I think. I think maybe a lot of couples do go through this. I'm not 100 sure because, like divya said, in her case, she was used to being able to spend a lot, yeah, and now it feels weird to be kind of constrained that way, but mine was more like yours while I did have the privilege of studying abroad.
Speaker 4:Yeah once you're there you are working with a different currency and a different value for money works differently there, right, and as in, it's at a different level. Things cost more there. So you you suddenly are constrained. I was like that for a number of years. And what happens? Is you get used to those small numbers yes, and you're going to say I can do this in the moment. The idea of putting in, even for an investment, something much, much more, yes, okay, but I won't be able to access it for a while.
Speaker 3:I won't, I won't be able to see the fruit of it for a while.
Speaker 4:You know, maybe I should just put it in savings you know you start thinking in this way and like I said earlier, entrepreneurship dangles your weaknesses. She's got hers.
Speaker 3:I've got mine.
Speaker 4:I don't get to look at hers and say aha.
Speaker 2:I was right.
Speaker 1:If anything.
Speaker 4:You both have something that you need to find a middle ground for, and that only happens through the conversation.
Speaker 1:A number of times I've stopped myself telling my husband. I told you so and I'm like I'll not rub it in.
Speaker 3:But I use we for everything. Okay, we made a mistake, we should have not gone this way and honestly I do think it is a we, because at the end of the day, even if he says certain things, he he does talk to me about it and I'm like okay, fine, yeah, let's just do it, let's just see. So, so technically it's a we, right, like, or if you are so against it, at that point itself you should have been like no, there's no way and put a reason why you let it happen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So some mistakes last few months and even if I was against it in the end I'll, for whatever my reasons, whether it's personal or whatever I let it go, yeah. And now I can't come back and say I told you so.
Speaker 3:I told you it was a bad idea and I think also the idea of money for me was very much that, like my parents were, like this bank I could just keep withdrawing from, so that that idea of money is going to come, like it's going to be there. We are, you are, we're gonna somehow manage it. It's something that I don't need to even convince myself. There'll be days when I'm a little up about money, but most of the times in my head it's just like yeah, I will somehow figure it out, it's just going to work out is a thing. And my mom keeps saying you know, I'm God's special child to have that kind of a mindset. You know Whereas with him it is kind of like but I can see the money going down. How can you say it's all going to be okay? And I'm like no, no, it'll be fine, let's just go ahead with our work.
Speaker 4:But I think I know I't think that let's just go ahead. We'll go to the stretch car. It's a big deal.
Speaker 3:I'm craving garlic bread today. So you know, we're just like very important right now, so let's just go. So there's a lot of me behaving in that way and a lot of him being very tight. Him being very tight, but I think, to his credit, one of the greatest things and I think maybe it also comes from his training is that when he puts his mind to doing something and saying that this is a place I'm going to work on, you will see a tremendous change. Yeah, so now, when it comes to money and stuff, I still keep joking around where, randomly, I'll go up to him and be like you know, our electricity bill last month was 10,000.
Speaker 3:And this is when you know we're about to sleep. So he sleeps by like 9 30 ish and I sleep around like 10, 30, 11 kind of a thing. So at like 10ish I'll be like yeah, you know, I paid 10,000 for electricity. Sushant's like and I'm like yeah, I don't know like did we run the ACs? A lot like what happened. He's like what are you saying? How is it 10,000? And then I was like yeah, it was just 500 bucks.
Speaker 4:And that's when I'm like, and you know I was like, okay, you're me.
Speaker 2:But then after, and then she comes and jokes with me the next day.
Speaker 4:she's like you know, I know I'm going to keep doing that and I was like, yeah, actually you should keep doing that, because I don't know why I'm freaking out.
Speaker 3:It's such a conditioned response. It's a what you know, it's a lot what? So that's something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like what you said about what you get used to, you get boxed into that, like my dad is one of those examples. In our railway quarters, where we are living, water was a huge issue. Right Water would come. Anyways, like those old houses, it will be supplied twice a day or once a day. You have to fill up your tanks and buckets and everything and sit, but we were the last house in the lanes. The pressure was very low so we had to put a motor, put a hand pump so much in the house to pull the water.
Speaker 1:So he has struggled for years, decades, having to make sure on time, that time you're at home you're filling water, there's enough, everything's working. Now, when we don't have that crazy water problem also. He's so stuck sometimes he acts so crazily, sometimes saying this need not wash so much we wash with soap, but you understand he's been so conditioned, trying to handle it for so many years.
Speaker 1:His brain is still in that fear, yeah, that what if? And that becomes it starts determining your decisions in a lot of things and sometimes in business, in life and partnerships. You have to be ready with whatever resources you have to open yourself to see, hey, I'm not in danger right now in this way. I, I should open up and go and do that, but see the risk with that.
Speaker 4:I'm talking about the mindset that I have, and you and your dad as well, is that you it should not spiral into a scarcity mindset yes, because you will, to the extent that I don't want to get too voodoo-ish about this. People talk, manifestation and so on, right?
Speaker 3:But you do end up seeing your external world, reflected in the kind of mindset that you have.
Speaker 4:And so if you're always with that feeling of I don't have enough, I don't have enough, you will start to externally also not have enough, not have enough. And I think here, a lot of the times you probably would benefit from examples of people who have had the opposite kind of mindset. You know, so you hear stories of people like, let's say, anamita bachchan, who has lost everything and just gave it all back.
Speaker 3:Yes, you know, because they have this abundance mindset where it's like you know what.
Speaker 4:That's the goal. I'm gonna go after it, figure it out on the way, and by the time you have so much, it's like. It's like you know. You know, for some people, money is like an energy, and nobody expects energy to be with them all the time.
Speaker 2:So such people don't expect money to be with them all the time.
Speaker 3:They don't care what happens.
Speaker 4:Focus on your goal, you'll somehow get there, and people who you don't necessarily end up being a huge fan of because they have this mindset, from a financial perspective, they do really really well.
Speaker 4:One example I can think of is someone like a Donald Trump. How does a man like him get into a position like that where he always seems to be on top of things, at least from a typical hierarchical sense? I think he's got an abundance mindset and people who are like that generally tend to do really well financially. Other aspects of life you need other mindsets to make sure you do well.
Speaker 4:So this has, I think, been a big learning for us. I mean, in her case it's kind of like how do I dial things down and look at things from a utility and necessity standpoint? For me the big learning has been how do I just feel? Abundant. So you have to work on that mindset and you have to practice it every day and realize that your childhood could not give you every mindset in the book.
Speaker 3:It's just not possible.
Speaker 4:So I tell you, work and be glad that you have a weakness to work on, because it really becomes meaningful when you start seeing yourself get better at it. So, as you can see, our good luck is in avalanches, and our bad luck is in drops we're not very inspiring that way, because we don't get to tell a rags to riches story, but it's still a lot of fun.
Speaker 1:But that's the thing right. The whole idea with these conversations for me is also that most of us don't have this crazy rags to riches inspiring Pretty much everybody. I think there there is a journey, there is a process, and what idea of success and rich is is very different for each person. So now asking you that has your definition of what success means evolved over a period of time? Have you seen it changed? But from being an employee to starters, to yeah for me.
Speaker 3:I for me, I'm already successful. Yeah, because, uh, I feel like I have hit a jackpot with parents being born to them, and then parents through marriage uh, husband, dogs, you know siblings, friends. I feel like my personal life is is the best. I don't want to change anything about it. You know, I get to have like the best friends that I meet on the weekends, parents and all of that, so I feel like that's all. That's been already a success for me.
Speaker 3:Where I think that I need to work a little bit more is definitely my health. My health has always taken a backseat in some sense, so that's something that I want to be a little bit more mindful of. When it comes to work as well. I feel like my mindset is mostly that it's always going to get better, and with better is going to come more problems, yeah, which you are going to solve to get to the next level, which again is going to give you problems that you need to solve Right. So there's never going to be a place where you're just like, yeah, everything is sorted, I'm just chill, so I, so I always just tell myself that right now, how life is is Amazing, we are successful, we, we're doing great, we are at a really lovely place in life, um and uh, you know it's. It's a time and I keep telling him this it's a time that we should enjoy and not keep thinking that I will do it once. I have this, this, this, this and this in place, something.
Speaker 3:And you know, there's a lot of times I think we, especially I, do, and I am also an elder child in the family. So I think that you know, I want to be able to do this for my parents financially and that. But then I'm also like, right now, what I can give them is my time and a significant amount of it, and maybe 10 years down the line I might not have as much time to give. I don't know how their healths are going to be, I don't know how things are going to pan out. So if right now, what I can do is give time, I'll give time 10 years later. If what I can do is, you know, pay for, like, an amazing Paris trip for them, I will do that then. But don't forget that you know there's when you have something, there's always another thing that's going to be lacking. So focus on the thing you have and work on the thing that you want to.
Speaker 4:You know, get better at yeah so I mean I'll go a little further back. I was very young. Success in my head was your difficult childhood. Thing of you know, I want to stand on a podium and mold a trophy, that's how it used to be defined. I never thought about money back then. Also, I just felt that it would come with it. And even if it did, I would probably not be.
Speaker 3:It's a by-product.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's a by-product For me that I think the respect that came with it, or maybe the. I think a lot of it was kind of privilege for me. I don't think it was as original from me as, which is probably why I didn't work out, maybe for good reasons. But as time went on, my definition of success kept changing.
Speaker 4:I became a little more ideologically driven. One of the reasons why I entered the ed sector was because I thought, you know, there's a social service element that I wanted to get into. I led a very privileged teenage life and I thought of the Ed to devote my time to actually, you know, doing things, and that's when I got into the education sector and so on. So that became my definition of success. But I think in more recent times, the last few years, I think I've realized that, you know, being very unidimensional about it or one-dimensional about it is not a good idea.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:You don't want to think of just this one thing and ignore everything else, because then you'll find yourself being unhappy and you won't even admit to the fact that you're unhappy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay.
Speaker 4:So I would say, you know, now it's sort of more like there are five things that are really important and I'm going to make sure I'm doing pretty well in all of them, because excessively well in any one of them doesn't help. So relationship wise with you. Know, what she described just now is with each other, with our dogs, with our parents and our friends. Notice that every one of these things is going really really well.
Speaker 2:Health is going pretty well for the most part Some issues here and there that we keep trying to work on.
Speaker 4:Things crop up also. So that's the thing. Financially not as much so for me. I'm like, okay, maybe this is the thing I want to increase, but I don't care about being the next C job. I don't even want to necessarily be a multi-millionaire, I just want to earn one. Once that area goes up, the level goes up, something else might start dropping.
Speaker 3:And I think that's a never ending process.
Speaker 4:But as long as you are able to have a few of these areas going well and one area which you are kind of working on while keeping the others in mind. You are successful, but as a process as opposed to like a level that you reach, you know.
Speaker 4:So I think that's the way we're defining now. It's very dynamic success. Yeah, so, and you know we find ourselves happy, you know even on days when we have a lot of something that's really bothering us, like a client said, overreaching, or something like that we don't lose sleep on it.
Speaker 1:No, not anymore yeah not anymore, yeah I think, initially yeah, initially. I remember when I would announce a retreat, you know and I know it'll take time, and holidays are not something people can just say, hey, I am in, except for a few people who do that, and thank God for those clients I have. But, and also it's understood that my holidays are slightly on the luxury side, so they are not in the range where people will book it without thinking yeah, some financial involvement is higher.
Speaker 1:So you don't think, but it wouldn't? It used to make me so anxious that nobody has responded, or once people respond. That would stress me also. Oh my god, will I be able to do a good job of it? Yeah, and I used to just, and people ask me a simple question like hey, but uh, you know why not this hotel and why this hotel? That used to keep me up saying that are they questioning the choices I'm making?
Speaker 1:but now I'm like it's just, it's just what it is yeah, it's fine, like it doesn't bother me and keep me up anymore, and I think your money like is that success? The definition has been constantly changing the amount I make now you know. Of course, expenses go up too, but when I was just starting out, if I thought I would make this much money, that would have been my idea of a very luxurious life. Right now it's like peanuts, it feels like it's nothing.
Speaker 4:But that's how life keeps evolving, things keep coming up and yeah, I would say that, to your credit, the fact that you no longer have that major response of being a little panicky the moment you see this.
Speaker 3:To me that's a huge marker that you arrived at a whole other level. Yeah, that's success in its own department.
Speaker 4:So I mean one way of defining success again from a whole process you can stand pointless. You care tremendously but you're not bothered.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And if you can hit that point, that's it, you're, you know, basically, you can hit that point, that's it, you're, you're, you know, you're basically you hit buddha, like you know.
Speaker 2:I mean why not?
Speaker 4:because that's exactly what he could do. Came to him um, so yeah why not just work towards that?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah I think, yeah, that's like. So yeah, tell me about the 10 000 people because I don't want to
Speaker 3:react, but it was a fake bill, so you know it is what it is.
Speaker 4:That's what I'm saying. Tomorrow, you can say something that sounds real, and I'm just like you know, okay, fine, we'll manage.
Speaker 1:Well, coming to the end, before we wrap up, quick two tips or advice from you guys. First, to do with what you guys work with social media. Have you seen what do you think? Not, I would say. Have you seen what do you think are the two biggest mistakes most brands do with social media?
Speaker 3:I think the biggest mistake they do is they're not social on social media.
Speaker 3:So they don't bring that aspect of people are so scared and so rigid with what their brand stands for, like you know, oh my, in my brand we won't do stuff like that, and of course that that's absolutely true for a tv ad, for a billboard. But when you're on social media and especially trying to engage millennials and gen z and the future generations, you've got to be social. You've got to make them feel like you are one of their friends, one of their you know, um close acquaintances or something like that, and you've got to learn how to relate to every generation that's coming forward. So I feel like a lot of times brands are very scared that you know if they stand for a certain thing, that's how it should be on social media. No, you can always you can be a serious person, but there are things that are fun about a serious person too. Right Now, if you apply that to a brand, it's the same thing. So I think that's my number one thing I would say.
Speaker 4:I would say you're just that. One big mistake perhaps that a lot of brands make is that they underestimate the amount of work that goes into figuring out a formula that works. What works for you may not work for other people in vice versa. For that you need to study.
Speaker 4:You need to study people who have done it already. Let's say there's a really successful social media account, let's say, an Instagram account that's consistently generating very popular content. You need to take it down to a granular level. You need to see what is happening every second of what this person is doing in a 30 second view. So that ability to recognize finer details of any value. Obviously, you either hire an agency or somebody in your house.
Speaker 4:But if you don't understand what's valuable here, if you think you're just going to put out content out there of whatever, something that vaguely looks good or represents your brand, people will just come running. Or if you think I need to have an account because that's what everybody's doing, these are not the right reasons to do it and they're not the right way to go about it. You need to be able to have make fine restrictions, you know, within social media posts, to understand what works and what doesn't. And when you do that, you'll find that even if in the beginning you don't have a lot of quantity going on there, the quality of what you're doing will become very high very, very quickly because you're really looking to find those smaller details and understand what's working for your brand. I would say, that's the second big tip.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think they both are great tips From you. You mentioned earlier that you did this course in May a business course. Which course is that? And if our listeners want to do it.
Speaker 4:Sorry If others want to do it.
Speaker 1:What course is that? And if our listeners want, to do it. If others want to do it, what course is that it?
Speaker 4:is a program called PACE program by a gentleman named Rajiv Talreja, so it's a three day workshop and it's pretty intense. It's like a boot camp essentially, where you start at around 9, 10 in the morning and finish at at about 6-7 in the evening. Even in breaks that you have for food and stuff, they have coaches constantly coming on board to you know as an online.
Speaker 4:It's online it's online, completely online, so you get to stay at home, and they typically do it on weekends, because that way you don't have to compromise on your week and so on. So, in these three, days essentially they take you through every aspect of a business and also give you certain solutions on how you can overcome problems which are pretty common in business, like, for example, cash flows and so on. So I think Mr Rajiv Tavreja has done a fantastic job of pushing this case program and many people have found it very valuable.
Speaker 1:I was on a Zoom call with 1400 people.
Speaker 4:Wow, Okay, so it's clearly, you know he's really taken it to another level and so, yeah, I benefited tremendously from that.
Speaker 2:Lovely.
Speaker 4:And even did a follow-up course, which is on marketing. Even though we were a social media firm, I just felt there was a lot we could learn on marketing and so on, and I did so it was. It was very good and I think anybody who's looking to build a business just a little bit different from what your business is, you know.
Speaker 4:Yeah and you're probably pretty good at it, and even if you're not, you can develop it because you understand how. But how to run a business is kind of a second layer on top of that which you really should be paying more attention to. Yeah, and yeah, I would say anybody wants to do it should thanks, yeah great.
Speaker 1:Final question uh, if you could give an advice to your younger self or other youngsters now who want to pursue their career in this field, what would you tell them?
Speaker 3:I think no matter what field, let's say, you want to pursue I think it's the same thing we were discussing, it's that just be consistent and don't give up too easily. It's going to take. I have a 10-year theory. It takes you 10 years before it really shoots off, and I think this 10-year theory comes from a fun thing.
Speaker 3:Actually, if you go and look at a lot of actors, from their first role to their breakout role, it's usually 10 years, and those 10 years they were probably doing odd jobs, going for auditions, but they just kept at it. So it's the same logic for anyone wanting to be an entrepreneur as well. Keep working at it every single day. Keep going back to it every single day. Keep going back to it every single day, of course. Have your boundaries. Have take care of your health. I think mental health, physical health, is equally important as anything else but don't give up after one year or two years, especially if you come from a space where you can actually take this forward. You know, just keep going at it every single day and and definitely in in ten years you will realize maybe the business morphs into something else, but it definitely. You will see something very valuable that you are able to give to people.
Speaker 4:Me for younger self. I would say one very important thing is knowing what it is you really want. I had difficulty with that initially. First I wanted to do tennis. Then I didn't pursue tennis. I didn't even try to become a coach or anything like that. I left the field completely, started a whole other field, which is education, Did that for a few years left, started another.
Speaker 4:And while it's great because all these experiences have helped, right now I would say it benefits someone who say I know that this is the field and I know this is my vision. Do I have?
Speaker 2:any of the skills etc.
Speaker 4:Maybe not, but that itself is a huge advantage and if you can have that, knowing what you want, I would say it may seem like a stretch, but I would say you're 50% there already yeah, okay the rest of it comes down to mindset. Everything else can be taken care of. Are you willing to work on your mindset on a day to day basis? Are you willing to practice?
Speaker 1:it.
Speaker 4:I wake up every day now and I practice abundance.
Speaker 2:Because that's something I was not good at.
Speaker 4:I was so used to it and you forget that not everybody thinks like this and this is not a great way to go. So vision and mindset have that sorted. The earlier you can sort it out, the better. Obviously because other yeah, everybody, yeah, yeah so, uh, I I think there's nothing wrong with someone in their 50s suddenly realizing that, oh, you know vision and mindset, I need one yeah yeah, but that's a great place to start.
Speaker 4:So if you can start that out early, perfect. Yeah, lovely advice from both of you. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1:This was a great place to start. So if you can sort that out early, good for you. Lovely advice from both of you. Thank you so much. This was a great conversation. Thank you for having us. My pleasure. I've learned a lot and I'm sure people who listen to it will do so. Thank you again.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:Thank you. Thank you so much for tuning into today's episode of the Inspired Life. We hope you found some motivation and insights to fuel your own journey. If you love this conversation, don't forget to hit that subscribe button and leave us a review. It really helps us reach more like-minded dreamers just like you. And for more inspiration between episodes, follow us on Instagram at the Inspired Life Podcast. We share behind the scene moments, quotes from our guests and all the good vibes to keep you inspired every day. If you have an unconventional story or unique path you'd love to share, we'd love to hear from you. Reach out to us on Instagram or send us a message. Who knows, maybe you could be our next guest. Until next time, keep chasing what lights you up. Stay inspired.